Photos by Chantik Photography.
The first thing I ever heard from Tsjuder were the words: “Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?” After that there was no way back for me. So it's no surprise that it was with great pleasure that I accepted Sonja's invitation to the listening session of Tsjuder's forthcoming album, which will be entitled Helvegr and released on the 23rd of June. In Oslo I also couldn't miss the opportunity to do an interview with Tsjuder after the listening session where Sonja from Season of Mist gave us some information about the album, the recording process, and so on. And so it happened... Half an hour of fun, laughing, and discussing.
DEJAN: During the discussion after the listening session Sonja from Season of Mist took my opening question. But I have another one. We talked before that you haven't heard the album for two years now. So, how are the feelings now after hearing it, after two years?
(Everybody laughed before answering the question.)
DRAUGLUIN: I think it's okay, yeah. As I told you, I usually need some time before listening to the music when we have recorded it. Because you are so focused on everything that you are not satisfied with. And it's impossible to hear it objectively. I think it’s okay now, yeah. But the sound in my corner was very sharp.
DEJAN: In general, you are satisfied.
DRAUGLUIN: I think I'm satisfied, yeah.
NAG: But I'm the complete opposite. I have listened to it a lot. That's good and bad because, you know, when you're done, you should be done. Draw the line, you're finished, you can't do anything more. But when continuing to listen, you start to find the things that you could have changed. Or you would have tried something else. But I try to block that out and think that, okay, the album is done, nothing more to do. And, yeah, but it's the first time in a long time I listened to the whole album as we did today.
ŽIGA: And do you get any new ideas now when you hear the album after so much time?
DRAUGLUIN: No, not from my own music, or our own music, no. I don't, sorry.
ŽIGA: It's just like, if you are inspired by your own music or you just get everything out for that album and when the next comes, it's just another different feeling.
DRAUGLUIN: When we listen to the music that we created, we are into that music. And when I listen to it, I'm evaluating that music. Not something that we will make later, so for me it's not like that.
NAG: Yeah, I totally agree.
DRAUGLUIN: But you may get inspired to make new music or to do something more. But not like how the music should sound.
DEJAN: Okay, so let's come back to my initial first question. There's a big gap between the previous album and the new one. What took you so long?
DRAUGLUIN: As Erik said, we always take a bit of time before we start composing the music because it's lots of work. And you're kind of exhausted when you finish the record. When we started making the music, and we tried to do it how we usually do it, like rehearsing it and playing with drums and stuff, things were a bit difficult this time, because we didn't exactly agree about how the next album should sound and the direction we should take. So there was also a small delay there. And then, as we said, the album was recorded in 2020. So there has also been a long delay with the mixing process and also the release because of vinyl shortage and Covid-19 and all that stuff. And also we don't live off our music, so we are not musicians that live off music. So this has to be on top of earning money for paying the bills and stuff like that.
DEJAN: Yeah, referring to that, about ten years ago I talked to Nagash, the frontman of Troll, he's a chef. May I ask what you do for a living? For instance, I can say for myself; I'm a teacher of German and a translator. What do you do?
NAG: I'm a computer programmer.
DRAUGLUIN: I work with statistics. It's nothing interesting, but you have to earn your money, right? And if you don't want to do it, I don't think you could earn enough money from music even if you wanted to but at least we do not want to try that. Because if you want Tsjuder to sound the way it does, then you can just forget. Forget earning, that's the fun of it.
DEJAN: How would Tsjuder sound if you would have wanted to earn money from music?
NAG: We would probably throw in some techno parts and female vocals and shitloads of keyboards.
DRAUGLUIN: I think it would be way slower. It would be way slower and easier because it's easier to listen to it. When you listen to it now, you have to listen to it a couple of times before you get it. At least I hope so.
DEJAN: Of course, it's full of a lot of stuff.
DEJAN: Referring to the new song... This was actually the only connection with the new album when I came here to Oslo. So, referring to the new song, you are still angry. Where does your anger come from? I mean, you're no angry teenagers anymore.
NAG: Are you talking about the video or the album in general?
DRAUGLUIN: General anger.
DEJAN: Yes. I mean, the song showed that the new Tsjuder is also somehow the old Tsjuder. The energy, the anger, it’s still there.
NAG: Yeah, I think without it, it wouldn't be Tsjuder. And where it's coming from, that's... We are affected, as everyone else, about what's happening around us. So... This is actually a hard question.
DRAUGLUIN: I think it's more like, it's always been like that. In black metal you are kind of cultivating a certain part of yourself, and pushing it to the extreme in a way. And that's the anger part. When you make music for Tsjuder, it has a certain emotional content. I'm not necessarily angry when I make the music, or Eric is not necessarily angry, but the music is aggressive.
NAG: And that's the way it definitely should be. Where it comes from is just our understanding and interpretation of what's going on around us, what affects us. I don't give a shit what affects someone across the world, as long as they don't concern me with their problem.
DRAUGLUIN: I also think that lots of people, when they listen to you, they kind of feel like it's aggressive. It's not really aggressive for me. I think it's just nice. I like it that way.
DEJAN: It's relaxing.
DRAUGLUIN: Yeah, it's just a musical expression that I like.
DEJAN: Maybe a simple question. How come that you are still with Season of Mist?
NAG: They do extremely much for us. They push us. They help us out. They do stuff like this press meeting. The video we made with Season of Mist was kind of pushing us. We always had a good connection with them. They are easy to get a hold of. It's always been a good relationship.
DRAUGLUIN: It took 8 years for the next release. You could have a situation where Season of Mist was not happy with that. For us, they are really easy to work with.
NAG: I think we have a mutual respect kind of thing. We are very happy with them. They might not be as happy with us from time to time.
ŽIGA: Sonja mentioned that the video for Gods of Black Blood was your first video and today is also your first listening session. Tell us something about these experiences. How did that make you feel?
DRAUGLUIN: For me at least the recording of the video was something very different. I think the video was OK. We kind of sat down and thought about what we wanted included in the video.
NAG: But yes, it's very different. It's not something that we are used to. I don't know if strange is the correct word. Me and Draugluin, we grew up sitting in some basement making music. Personally, I feel physically we grew out of that. But still, we have that feeling. At least for me, I thought that was a little bit on display. It's a little bit strange. And also stuff like signing sessions, I find it strange. We do it. It's nice to meet people and to kind of give back to them. But still, it's a bit strange for us. We have no aim of being superstars or something like that.
ŽIGA: Is this also because you don't wear your corpse paint? Is that the difference? Because you're here naked, if I can say so.
NAG: With the corpse paint, it would be even stranger, hehe.
ŽIGA: Sure, sure. But it's easier for you on stage because you wear your mask, your corpse paint.
NAG: When playing the music with everything, it's a totally different setting. Because then you are Tsjuder. You are doing Tsjuder. Outside, we're just us.
DEJAN: I have to add something. It's not a question. I understand it's strange for you to do these signing sessions, listening sessions and so on. But your music affects people and it has affected me. It gave and still gives me lots of hours of pleasure. So I just want to thank you. I like to listen to your music. Even if you don’t make an album in the next two years, I won't be disappointed. Because once there will be a new Tsjuder album. So, from my point of view, just continue doing it.
NAG: We really appreciate that, of course. We truly do. Thank you.
DEJAN: You already talked about the drummer before. So now Tsjuder is somehow a duo. How will you manage live performances and so on?
NAG: We will use John Rice. So whenever John is able to play, he will play. And we also have Eivin Brye. He has done, I think, three concerts with us now? So we'll just see who's available and who wants to do it. We won't pressure anyone else with that. For now it works very well. John is doing whatever he can. Eivin is doing what he can.
DEJAN: So there will be future shows?
DRAUGLUIN: Yeah, sure.
DEJAN: But nothing planned yet?
DRAUGLUIN: There are some shows planned.
NAG: The problem is that we have no idea what's official.
DRAUGLUIN: There will be shows. There are planned shows. I'm not sure what's official yet. But there will be a tour.
DEJAN: The next question is also somehow a personal one. You were supposed to play a show in 2017. I don't know if you remember. It was near my hometown at the festival United We Stand in the Austrian city Graz. It was cancelled one or two weeks before. Do you still remember the reason?
NAG: Tsjuder was cancelled?
DEJAN: Tsjuder was cancelled and Archgoat jumped in.
NAG: I was in the hospital. I was in the north of Norway and my back just collapsed. So there was no chance of playing a concert.
DEJAN: No surgery was needed?
NAG: Yes, also. My leg was actually dead, paralyzed. I had no feelings, no movements. I was just enjoying the morphine for one week. That's the reason.
DEJAN: But now you're fine?
NAG: It depends on the circumstances. I manage.
DEJAN: A few years ago I bought your EP Throne of the Goat. On the internet I was reading some reviews about the bad sound. I didn't know what to expect. Then I got it. Now I know. (everyone laughing out loud) So, any plans to re-record this one?
NAG: Oh, we did. Did you actually get the real one? The 7"?
DEJAN: Yeah. The 7", I think it’s the first release.
NAG: That's rare.
DRAUGLUIN: The sound is demanding on that one.
DEJAN: Well, I'm used to the garage sound, but this is a level higher.
NAG: We released the original and we re-recorded the old songs. But they're not exactly the same. We've changed them a little bit.
DRAUGLUIN: And the sound is not pristine on the new one either, hehe. But it's better than the old one.
DEJAN: It's unique, hehe.
DEJAN: Let's go back to your actual album that’s coming out on the 23rd of June if I remember correctly. What is your favourite song on that one?
DRAUGLUIN: As I told you already, it's impossible for me to answer that.
NAG: What I can say is that the songs are not very different, but there's a big variety within the songs. So each song has something special, for me at least. So I have no favourite. We just started to play Iron Beast, the first song, live. It’s a great song to play live.
DEJAN: I agree.
NAG: So this could somehow be my favourite live song. But some of the songs we will probably never play live.
DRAUGLUIN: Some of the songs are really hard to play as a trio as we discussed earlier. If you ask me the same question in five years, then perhaps it would be easier to answer what songs have come to the test of time. But at the moment it's kind of hard.
DEJAN: I would have to check it but I think that Tsjuder isn't known for outros. But Hvit død is like an outro here. How come?
NAG: I actually thought about that when we were listening as well. Draugluin will probably say more about the song or the track.
DRAUGLUIN: Hvit død is very different from the other stuff. But for example the track Helvegr also has elements of the same kind of music in it. And also a not yet released song has some of the same elements. I didn't expect us to put that one on the album, but Eric liked it and we just ended up using it. I think it's a nice outro.
NAG: I think we tried to put it in the middle somehow also but it didn't fit.
DEJAN: You mentioned the song Helvegr. Until that song the album was Tsjuder as I know it. Why Helvegr? I mean, Chaos Fiend has some melodic parts and then of course Gods of Black Blood, too. Helvegr is the next level, I would say. Because of the 7 minutes and 36 seconds I expected something a little bit slower. But I was still surprised.
DRAUGLUIN: It's a different song. I mean there is lots of music that we make that is not released. So sometimes I think it sounds good.
DEJAN: That's out of question. I was just surprised.
NAG: I also think that it's very different. But we have always tried to put some contrast between the songs. Helvegr is different, it's slow and...
ŽIGA: It fits. That's my opinion. It is mind-blowing and it goes straight to the point. Although it's slow and...
DRAUGLUIN: It's way more influenced from old bands like Black Sabbath and Pentagram. And also the more melodic part, it's a different one.
DEJAN: Can we expect that this one will be played live?
NAG: Helvegr?
DEJAN: Yeah.
NAG: I think it depends because a lot of it's a different ballgame. Because you have to make a setlist which keeps the audience interested... Maybe the wrong word but you have to keep the audience going. So we'll just have to see.
DRAUGLUIN: I think if you have like 30 minutes, Helvegr will not be a part of the show. But if you have an hour, it could be.
DEJAN: I think the next question is more for Nag. If I'm not mistaken, you were part of the recording of the last album of Urgehal.
NAG: Yeah.
DEJAN: Are we going to see you tomorrow on stage?
NAG: No. I don't know what Urgehal are playing tomorrow. But I think they are focusing more on the old stuff. And also I think regarding Urgehal, I think the way they've done it now is in my opinion perfect. Because they have two vocalists who both grew up with Trondr. So the connection is there. I think everyone should just leave the job for those two and keep it like that. Urgehal did one concert where everyone who sang on the latest album was part of it. And I think that was a good idea. It was a cool kind of tribute. And I think it should just stop with that.
DEJAN: So tomorrow it won't be like that.
NAG: I don't know. I haven't spoken to them.
DEJAN: I understand.
NAG: I think they will do it as they do it now with the two vocalists. They share the job.
DEJAN: I don't want to open any old wounds, but what was your relationship with Trondr Nefas? Were you friends? How was it?
NAG: The thing is that Urgehal, Endezzma, Beastcraft, all those bands come from Hønefoss, which is kind of across the mountain. It's a 30-minute drive from us. And we were approximately the same age. So we started to meet up and kind of... It was a group outside of Oslo, just becoming closer and closer. I played with Trondr Nefas in Beastcraft. And I think that's it. It's a real pity that he died.
DEJAN: Trondr had lots of side projects. But Tsjuder or you two don't have any. There's nothing active. So, Tsjuder covers all your needs in producing music.
NAG: There's not enough hours in one day. I think both of us really like different kinds of music as well. It would be really cool to play in a die-hard death metal band or to do some thrash stuff. But you can't do everything. At least, not me. I can play with another band, do live stuff or something. But not focus on making music. Tsjuder has always been a thing for the two of us.
DEJAN: I don't know if it was a hint before when we were talking. You said nowadays it's easier to record new music because of the improved technology. So when recording music, how much are both of you involved at the same time? Or you do some riffs and then you send them to each other? How do you manage this?
DRAUGLUIN: Helvegr is mostly me. Except for Faenskap og død which we did together. We have made lots of music together. I think for the next album we will try to have a closer collaboration on the music. That's the goal.
NAG: I think and hope the same. And as Draugluin said before, with technology it’s easier to do stuff now. And we live two hours from each other. So we will see, but hopefully we will record and share. But eventually we will get together.
DEJAN: Okay, I'm out of questions. So I just want to thank you for your time.
ŽIGA: Do you have any last words for the fans?
DRAUGLUIN: I don't think so.
NAG: Choke on it.
DRAUGLUIN: We did that statement on the video. I think it summarises it. This is real black metal, choke on it.
